Group Chat No 3: Can We Talk About Prenups?

Today, we’re diving into a taboo topic: prenuptial agreements.

Full disclosure: I don’t have a prenup. I was 21 when I met Ken. We got engaged at 27 and married at 28, and even though I was sure I was a grownup, looking back, we were just a couple of babies who didn’t know anything about anything. At the time, I also didn’t know anyone who had a prenup—or if they did, it wasn’t something that they discussed with me.

When I wrote the Money Diaries book, a friend anonymously shared her prenup experience, but she had married a very rich man, and as a result, I think that section is interesting but not relatable. In the years since, I don’t think I’ve given prenups much thought, though I’m sure if I was pressed for an opinion on the topic, I’d say, “Yeah, go for it. Can’t hurt, right?” I’m always in favor of women having financial protections in place. Research suggests that more Americans are getting prenups, and not always because they want to protect their assets, but because they want to avoid taking on their partner’s debt. (I highly recommend this 2022 New Yorker piece on the topic.)

No one can deny the bad rap that prenups have, though, especially in pop culture. I’m listening to Shopaholic Ties the Knot right now (highly recommend the whole Shopaholic series—escapist literature at its finest), and there’s a whole subplot about heroine Becky Bloomwood’s horrid mother-in-law-to-be drawing one up, and her dreamy fiancé, Luke, refusing to sign it. It all feels very swoon-y and romantic. But in the real world, Becky and Luke should definitely sign a prenup, and Becky should have her own family lawyer representing her during the process.

Aja Frost of Platonic Love brought up prenups with me late last year, when we caught up over Zoom one Friday shortly before Christmas. She and her fiancé were going through the process, and she wondered if I wanted to team up to write about it. I knew immediately it would make a juicy newsletter for Purse readers, but it took me a minute to realize it was a perfect topic for Group Chat. While I don’t have a prenup, I knew I could round up some amazing women to share their perspectives on this topic. And that’s what you’re getting in today’s newsletter! Be sure to check out Thursday’s edition of Platonic Love, where Aja expands on her own experience. I’m sure it will be a really interesting and enlightening read.

I’m really so excited about the women featured here today. Along with Aja, we have four smart women sharing why they think it’s important to get a prenup (and if you’re married, why you might want to consider a postnup). Cindy DiTiberio is the founder of the fantastic newsletter The Motherlode, where she writes about her own experience with divorce, as well as other women’s, in her series The Divorce Diaries. I’ve been lucky enough to know Aditi Shekar for nearly a decade, and she’s one of the smartest people around. She’s the founder and CEO of Zeta, a financial institution focused on helping couples and families thrive. Sol Lee is the founder and CEO of Neptune, a platform for couples navigating the prenup process. And Kelly Schwab is a partner at Chemtob, Moss, Forman and Beyda, LLP (and friend of my friend Heather). It’s a powerhouse lineup, if I do say so myself.

Just a heads-up, this newsletter is long. But it’s a good one filled with lots of info.

I’ll let our experts take it from here!

Aja Frost

I always assumed I’d get a prenup—even before I had a fiancé or assets, really. My mom talked a lot about financial independence when I was growing up. She made big professional sacrifices for my dad’s career, and I think she wanted me and my siblings to make those decisions with our eyes wide open—and with more protections in place.

Luckily—or maybe because of what my mom impressed on me—I’m marrying someone who is ultra-supportive of my career and equally pragmatic about money.

Neither of us ever said, “Hey, can we get a prenup?” By the time we got engaged, we’d been dating for eight years, and we’d had so many conversations about how valuable they were—for ensuring inheritances stayed in the family, outlining how we’d handle our respective businesses if we got divorced, having a plan if one of us became a stay-at-home parent, etc.

It turns out that it’s pretty rare for both people in a couple to want a prenup. (Both of our lawyers asked multiple times “who was driving.”) Usually, one person has more money and initiates.

Before we started, I thought we’d sail through this process without any friction. I was wrong. While we’ve worked through it, I’ve learned you can’t talk about your interests versus your partner’s without getting emotional and, at times, defensive.

My big takeaway: A prenup isn’t for everyone. Some of the lessons as I’ve gotten deeper into the process include…

• It’s expensive. (I share some details around how much we’re paying and how we’re handling the fees in my essay.) We’re already spending a lot of money on a wedding this year, and adding the prenup costs on top is stinging a bit. Of course, a prenup is cheaper than a messy divorce—but my point is, if neither person has assets, and you don’t expect to inherit a lot of money, you might not need one.
• I realized that the state laws dictating how our assets would be divided in a divorce don’t diverge much from our personal beliefs. There’s a common refrain that everyone has a prenup, whether they sign one or not, because every state has laws in place that dictate how assets are divided in divorce. Massachusetts, where we live, has “equitable distribution” laws. This means your property isn’t necessarily divided 50/50, but it has to be fair. If I got divorced without a prenup in Massachusetts, I think I’d feel pretty good about it. Of course, we could move to a state with laws I feel less comfortable about—and I’d rather have absolute control over these personal financial decisions.
• And lastly, I’ve learned there’s an intangible value to putting together a prenup and having the hard conversations before you need to. (And hopefully, we never do.) My fiancé and I talk about money a lot, but we weren’t having conversations like: “If you contribute 80% of our down payment, would you get that money back when we got divorced? Would you get that money back plus interest?” (We decided that if you’re putting down money for a house, it becomes marital property, and we wouldn’t worry about who contributed how much.) Or, “What happens to anything we inherit? How can we make sure that our divorce wouldn’t affect our siblings, like if there’s a family house that we all share?”

This Thursday on Platonic Love, I’m sharing more details about my prenup—from how much it cost to the inevitable hard conversations.

Cindy DiTiberio

I never would have signed a prenup when I got married at 28. I had antiquated thoughts about them (that they signal you’re planning for divorce). I wasn’t bringing much of anything into the marriage. I wasn’t yet truly a feminist. Motherhood (and the pandemic) had not yet radicalized me.

But today, as a 45-year-old who just went through an expensive divorce, I’m on a mission. Every woman should sign a prenup. And if you didn’t, get yourself to a law office and create a postnup.

A postnup contains the same parameters as a prenup, it’s just created after the marriage. It can be drafted at any point during the marriage, but I especially recommend one if a spouse downshifts their career due to caretaking responsibilities.

A postnup can put financial protections in place to codify the value of your caregiving work. Downshifting a career has long-term consequences—not just for your earning capacity (it will likely never recover)—but for your retirement savings and Social Security benefits.

These financial sacrifices don’t feel too painful if you stay married. But when you face divorce, they become quite obvious.

Everyone thinks their spouse will recognize their sacrifice and acknowledge it in the divorce settlement. But way too many men argue that it was their wife’s choice to cut back, to stay home, to take care of the children. They don’t think they should have to pay any spousal support to help their former partner get back to a place where they can financially support themselves.

Spousal support is not mandated like child support. In order to get it, you have to take your spouse to court. While most judges will grant it for long-term marriages, this process takes time and money. If you’ve stepped out of the workforce for years to care for children, and upon divorce, your ex doesn’t want to pay spousal support, you may find yourself needing to support yourself financially as soon as you file.

How can a postnup help? A postnup can include a stipulation that spousal support will be paid for the same number of years the spouse was out of the workforce. And because it is right there, in writing in the postnup (or prenup), you won’t spend countless billable hours arguing about what your sacrifice was worth.

While some women may feel uncomfortable still being financially tied to their ex, I encourage you to think of it like a loan they are paying back. While married to them, they received your labor for free. But upon divorce, you are due funds for all those hours worked. It is back pay, money they saved thanks to your labor. And now it is yours. The bill has come due.

Prenups and postnups can be feminist documents. They can outline how to acknowledge unpaid labor. I partnered with Eve Rodsky, the Fair Play Policy Institute, and Aaron Thomas, the Prenup Guy, on “The Fair Play Guide to Prenups and Postnups,” which outlines other components you might want to include in the contract.

Sol Lee

While most of us have had conversations with our friends about who should pay on the first date, many of us often overlook how we should navigate our finances in serious relationships. For many couples who are engaged or considering getting married, a prenup may actually be one of the best opportunities to plan your finances and build a shared understanding of the future you want to spend together.

While discussing a prenup might feel uncomfortable, in many ways, it can act as a relationship strengthener. A strong prenup outlines various aspects of your financial relationship and cover areas like:

• How you’ll divide premarital and martial assets and debts
• What happens with spousal support (aka alimony)—and how this may play a role into family planning
• How inheritances are treated
• How to handle assets in the case of a partner’s death

If you think prenups are just for the wealthy, think again! They’re for the startup founder with a growing business, the nurse with student loans, the individual who just inherited a home from their grandmother, and for anyone who values financial transparency with their partner. The most valuable aspect isn’t the document itself, but the conversation it forces you and your partner to have before signing anything.

For women especially, prenups can be empowering. We all know that women still face disproportionate career and financial impacts from caregiving responsibilities. And with the current political environment, there are so many unknowns. If you’re planning to have children or might become the primary caregiver for your parents, consider how a career pause might affect your earning potential. A thoughtful discussion with your partner and a well-crafted prenup can acknowledge this reality and ensure financial security regardless of how your partnership evolves.

The discomfort around prenups often stems from stereotypes that prenups are a plan for divorce. I strongly encourage everyone to reframe this thinking. Prenups reflect financial clarity and mutual respect for both partners.

The best way to approach the prenup discussion is to focus on your shared vision of your life together, not the “in case of divorce” perspective. Imagine the life you want to build together. Do you want to buy a home? Do you want to have children? Will one of you take time off from work, and if yes, how can you protect each other’s contributions—both financial and non-financial? The strongest prenups acknowledge that value in a partnership extends beyond the money either person brings to the table. These decisions deserve thoughtful consideration before you’re in the midst of navigating them.

Having clear financial agreements doesn’t diminish the romance—it creates security that allows your relationship to flourish, whatever the future holds!

Aditi Shekar

As a money coach, CEO of Zeta, and friend, I’ve spent tens of thousands of hours not only talking to couples about how they feel about money but also seeing exactly how they manage that money down to the dollars and cents. Through this lens, I want to take a minute to talk about prenups.

While we’ve all heard the prenup lores of celebrities gone wild, in my opinion, that’s not what prenups could or frankly should be. Instead, I see them as a tool, in every couple’s tool belt, to help align their financial lives before they take this giant leap of faith together.

1. A prenup begins with financial disclosure.One of the foundations of a prenup is the requirement of financial disclosure, where you list all your assets and liabilities. This can be a wildly uncomfortable thing for some couples, and many times it’s the first time they’ve ever discussed how much they have (or don’t have). To me, this is a sacred ritual every couple getting married should follow—if you’re willing to have this person make health decisions for you, why shouldn’t financial decisions be a part of that as well? It can be especially uncomfortable when one person has much more than the other, but being clear about that and how you want to treat it is foundational in a long-term, happy relationship.
2. A prenup can be a beautiful thing.Prenups don’t have to be combative. Arguably, drafting a financial agreement at one of the happiest moments in your relationship can actually be a powerful bonding moment. I’ve seen couples make very selfless decisions in some of these conversations. Getting some of the uncomfortable questions ironed out up front while you’re in love is surely a better recipe for success than waiting ’til you’re mad and sitting at the divorce table.
3. If done well, a prenup is designed to protect both of you, not just one of you.A good prenup is one that protects both people in a relationship. When you sit down to draft a prenup, you’re actually encouraged to have a lawyer that represents each of you. This suggestion is designed to make sure that no one partner is getting taken advantage of by the other, and it can be necessary when trying to enforce a prenup. In fact, if a prenup is too one-sided, a court can find it “grossly unfair” and choose for it to be unenforceable!
4. Prenups aren’t just for rich people.One of the most common comments I hear when I talk about the prenup is, “Well, we didn’t have anything anyway.” This is a total misconception—prenups aren’t only useful when you have assets going into a relationship; they’re also useful to hash out how your assets earned during a relationship might be divided. Let’s say you’re a single-income household—your partner works, and you’re staying home to take care of the kids. A prenup can help you agree that your partner’s income is seen as a shared asset irrespective of who earned it, making it fair game in a situation where you may need to divide it. Alternatively, I’ve met many dual-income couples who prefer to see their individual incomes as their own. If you don’t have a prenup to clarify that point of view, a family court judge may see it differently. A prenup, IMHO, is kinda like a living will with your partner.
5. Don’t be a martyr.This is my last and final point because I’ve seen this mistake happen too often. Sometimes when one partner does have more than the other person, the “less rich” partner may want to demonstrate that they’re not in it for the money. I’ve watched friends, strangers, and even my own husband claim, “I don’t want your money!” Let me please say this loudly for the people in the back: There’s no need to do this. A marriage is a partnership, one that shares many things, including money. There is no need to opt out of money just to make a point, especially when you might regret that point of view later, when circumstances change! I get it. It might be uncomfortable to say, “Yeah, I’d like some money,” but instead of saying that, try asking your partner what they think. You might be surprised that they want to share their wealth! And if they don’t, that’s okay, too. Using “what if” scenarios to hash out what happens can be a useful way to work through these questions.

Kelly Schwab

I am a big believer in marriage. No one gets engaged thinking about what’s going to happen if the marriage ends, but realistically, many do. By entering into a prenuptial agreement, you and your spouse-to-be are setting the financial terms of your divorce before you get married. The benefit of a prenuptial agreement is that it will give you a level of financial predictability about what happens if things don’t work out.

Some tips to consider:

1. Have clear communication with your spouse-to-be about the goals of the prenup early on in the engagement. Are you looking to protect a business that you have? Do you have family money? Are you looking to establish support for children from a prior marriage? Are you both simply looking to define how money is handled during the marriage? Have these conversations and start working on the prenup at least six months before the wedding. Waiting until the last minute can add a layer of stress and contentiousness in the days leading up to the main event.
2. Both parties should have financial disclosure when negotiating a prenup. While many states, including New York, don’t require financial disclosure in a prenup, it will make for a better agreement. The couple should exchange information about their assets, liabilities and income, otherwise they are just negotiating in the dark. A refusal to disclose basic financial information can be a red flag about issues to come during the marriage.
3. Be sure you are represented by a family law attorney of your own when negotiating the prenup. I have seen instances where one person goes into the agreement without representation, and the results have not been pretty. The reality is that you are entering into a serious binding agreement that will impact your financial future. You need your own lawyer to guide you through the process.

Finally, while no one can predict the future, when entering into a prenup, it is important to think about where you see yourself in the future. For example, if you foresee staying home to raise a family while your spouse continues to work, you need to ensure the terms of the agreement will provide for you financially in the event of divorce.

Thank you so much, Aja, Cindy, Sol, Aditi, and Kelly, for sharing your thoughts!

I’d love to hear about reader experiences with pre or postnups. (As I always say, don’t forget to comment with kindness!)

Random Extras:

• It was so fun to join Neha Ruch of Mother Untitled for her new series, Mother Classes. I talked about work flexibility and what stay-at-home moms should consider when they return to work. The whole series is so good!

• You all know I’ve been grumpy lately, but I’ve been trying to find little pockets of joy where I can. I had a good laugh over Claire Zulkey’s recent reader survey in her delightful Evil Witches Newsletter. (And I’m only a tiny bit jealous that she’s such a funny writer!)

• This month, paid subscribers are automatically entered to win Mary Catherine Starr’s awesome new book, Mama Needs a Minute, as well a one of her fun “No worries if not!” mugs!1